Curse

Turbobusa · Apr 08, 2008, 05:02 PM // 17:02

^nice catch lol.
Reducing the effictiveness of skill on usage, I must say that it would keep me even more away from BM than I already am

Carinae · Apr 08, 2008, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

u dun bip teh monks

u bip teh eles
so they can spam rodgorts without wastin their elite on ele attunement or mind blast

Fail. If I ever see someone BiP/BR an Ele I'll leave the group.

Drakken Breathes Fire · Apr 09, 2008, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDL

That would make any of the PvE uber HP bosses hilarious.

Cast Vamp gaze on the lich, gain 1500hp!

I'm sure they'd limit the amount to up to your own max.
(Which would again, suck, because like the current ravenous gaze, it'd require us to be low on health always.)

Kaida the Heartless · Apr 09, 2008, 05:51 AM // 05:51

It's about efficiency. You have 8 character slots in PvE. Using one elite for BiP is bad, it's even worse when one character slot is stuck using the blood line.

Yea, just about anything works in PvE, but I like to steamroll my missions as fast and as efficiently as possible. Darwinism I suppose.

Kale Ironfist · Apr 09, 2008, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

It's about efficiency. You have 8 character slots in PvE. Using one elite for BiP is bad, it's even worse when one character slot is stuck using the blood line.

Yea, just about anything works in PvE, but I like to steamroll my missions as fast and as efficiently as possible. Darwinism I suppose.

It's not that bad to use Blood Magic, since it does have Order of Pain and Dark Fury, pumping up the power of all your physicals to massive proportions.

Of course, if you did have such a theoretical bar, you'd have huge sacrifice costs, that you'd need a fairly strong self-heal, or low max health combined with strong regeneration (or an attentive Monk and/or Ritualist for off-character healing).

Carinae · Apr 09, 2008, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Nobody in their right mind runs a battery necro anymore. In fact, very few people run ele squads in any serious PvE situation. Therefore, running BiP->Ele is double-fail.

You might see a single water ele occasionally, usually because someone has an ele primary character and has to live with it. Ensign runs an ele primary. Ensign is special, however.

A necro can actually be useful in higher PvE areas: melee shutdown, pressure reduction, meat shields, even moderate DPS. Yes, you might throw your extra attribute points into Blood just for BRenewal, but that is reserved almost exclusively for monks, usually hero monks.

Get real. A battery necro? Sheesh.

EDIT: We all need to mind Ensign's sig regarding snaek's posts.

Drakken Breathes Fire · Apr 09, 2008, 11:53 AM // 11:53

So yah, back to life steal, how do we negate retarded life stealing beyond our max health even on bosses, without becoming imba?

5-15% of a bosses health in shadow damage when life steal isn't possible because you're at your max, is pretty broken. There must be a set amount that comes into play if you're at 100% health and you can't steal life.
You should also only be able to steal up to your max, like grenths balance. Otherwise you're stealing, as previously mentioned 1500+ hp for nothing at all, and that's a STUPID amount of life shaved off of anything. It should NEVER get that high.

System_Crush · Apr 09, 2008, 12:08 PM // 12:08

U know, [skill=text]Mark of Fury[/skill] will stack with [skill=text]Dark Fury[/skill], I never run with that many physicals though, so I never use the adrenaline boosters.

As for limiting the amount stolen, [skill=text]Grenth's Balance[/skill] is limited to half the difference between your health and the target, only if you have less health. Such a heavy and complicated situational requirement is not a good way to manage requirement.
How about a simple transferred number?
You steal X% of the foes current health, you can never steal more than 5*the energy cost of the spell?

Drakken Breathes Fire · Apr 09, 2008, 01:21 PM // 13:21

or how about just a number outright?
like (max 90-120)

Trvth Jvstice · Apr 09, 2008, 04:17 PM // 16:17

I can't think of a way to improve the Blood Magic line in a way that wouldn't cause an unbalance with it's use in PVP. Just a slight improvement on some skills and you would have blood spike teams again.

AND: Snaek read forum rule # 9. Do Not Abuse the English Language

jayce · Apr 09, 2008, 09:51 PM // 21:51

i think its safe to say that the life-stealing mechanic needs to meet a condition. its probably the only way to limit as much as possible any potential abuse. but it needs to be done in a way that does not render life-stealing near useless.

Ravenous Gaze is the skill that should probably define life-stealing in my opinion with a minor tweak. the skill is worthless unless, the condition is met, then it's dam near god-like. the life-stealing should follow suit. it is the best way that i can think of to limit abuse while, at the same time, finally being able to get some decent damage buffs out of the damage skills.

If you or your target is below 50% health, you steal health from that target. Otherwise you deal Shadow Damage.

this example does a few things. it can finish off targets after much of the work is done. it allows targets some protection against life-stealing spikes. it also makes abusing this mechanic extremely difficult. if you are going to sacrifice your own health for the purpose of abusing life-stealing, then you will have to go deep to do so.

my only concern is Infuse Health. but if anyone have any better ideas, then do tell. its just that i haven't seen one yet that is not too complex as far as possible coding that may have to be done.

Jayce Of Underworld

Drakken Breathes Fire · Apr 10, 2008, 11:47 AM // 11:47

With a bit of thinking,
Here's what I've come up with for a re-hash of Life Stealing Direct Damage Skills for blood magic so far;

Vampiric Gaze; steal 5-15% health form target foe. (max 60.)
10 energy 1 sec cast time, 10 sec recharge.

Vampiric Swarm; Steal 5-15% health (max 60) from target foe and up to 2 others in the area.

15 energy 2 sec cast time, 15 second recharge.

Angorodons Gaze; energy and everything remains the same, life steal 5-15%
(max 60).

Life Transfer; For 6-12 seconds, Target Foe suffers from 3-8 health degeneration, you gain 3-8 health regeneration. If target foe is suffering from one or more conditions, you also suffer those conditions.
15 energy 3 sec cast time, 5 second recharge.

Ravenous Gaze; Steal 5-15% health from target foe. (max 60)
For every recharging blood magic spell steal an additional 5-15% health (max 90) If Target foe is suffering from one or more conditions, you also suffer those conditions.

5 energy, 1/4 sec cast time. 5 sec recharge.

Also for the orders line;

Change them all to shouts. Possible synergy with paragon.

Turbobusa · Apr 10, 2008, 03:07 PM // 15:07

I don't get your change to life transfer. You make it suck 3 times more than what it is already right now:

- It costs more
- 3 times the casting time
- You suffer the same conditions as your target. I think you want to make it work angorodon's gaze, but angorodon's gazes' bonus is meant to be triggered by condition drawn from allies, not those your team inflicted.

I'd rather have a longer recharge than this kind of drawback.

Drakken Breathes Fire · Apr 11, 2008, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Okay all of you, STFU.
And Moloch? you don't need to encourage them.

Hi I'm blood magic and I'm broke, I need to be fixed.
discuss.

Kaida the Heartless · Apr 11, 2008, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Hi blood magic! You should probably do less direct damage but support your party members in other ways!

Racthoh · Apr 11, 2008, 05:33 AM // 05:33

Blood magic.

Not eles, not the whoever is contributing the damage to the group. Try to keep it on topic.

Moloch Vein · Apr 11, 2008, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Things to consider:

The nerf to Order of the Vampire was a sloppy and unfair one. As it stands, you can no longer use Order of the Vampire in conjunction with Dark Fury. In essence, this makes Order of Pain better than its elite counterpart.

The malus of Order of the Vampire should be transferred to Order of Pain, with the following change:

"Party members under another Orders Enchantment spell are not affected."

By Orders, we understand Order of the Vampire, Order of Pain and Order of Apostasy, but not Dark Fury. If the game designers find dual OoA/OoV game-breaking, a change can be made to stop that.

The recharge of OoV should be removed.

Blood Magic also has no AoE hex. That limits its utility. Mark of Fury should be changed to "target+adjacent" if not "target+nearby". A cost increase would be acceptable.

Several of the Blood Magic DD/Life Steal skills could be changed completely in order to incorporate more utility to a one-dimensional line.

Example:

Blood Of The Aggressor: Hex spell. For x...y seconds, every time target foe attacks, you steal x...y health. (Yeah, I know, it's basically Insidious Parasite. That spell should have been in Blood anyway.)

Dark Pact: Hex spell. For x...y seconds target foe suffers -10 health degeneration.

Drakken Breathes Fire · Apr 11, 2008, 11:34 AM // 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Things to consider:

The nerf to Order of the Vampire was a sloppy and unfair one. As it stands, you can no longer use Order of the Vampire in conjunction with Dark Fury. In essence, this makes Order of Pain better than its elite counterpart.

The malus of Order of the Vampire should be transferred to Order of Pain, with the following change:

"Party members under another Orders Enchantment spell are not affected."

By Orders, we understand Order of the Vampire, Order of Pain and Order of Apostasy, but not Dark Fury. If the game designers find dual OoA/OoV game-breaking, a change can be made to stop that.

The recharge of OoV should be removed.

Couldn't this also be fixed by making the orders skills changed to shouts?
And just adding 'party members under another Necromancer shout are not affected.' (As Dark Fury remains an enchantment, problem solved no?)

Also allowing it to stack with Awaken the Blood and self enchants.
I think it has potential. *shrugs.*

Paragon//Necromancer party orders support anyone? XP

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

I don't get your change to life transfer. You make it suck 3 times more than what it is already right now:

- It costs more
- 3 times the casting time
- You suffer the same conditions as your target. I think you want to make it work angorodon's gaze, but angorodon's gazes' bonus is meant to be triggered by condition drawn from allies, not those your team inflicted.

I'd rather have a longer recharge than this kind of drawback.

Its pretty easy to tell which enemy has conditions on them or not. (Or even which ones you can handle with the life regeneration given by Life Transfer.) Necromancer also has more than enough ways of coping//rebounding his conditions away. (Or, better still with a secondary profession. Sure, you might pick up poison, disease and or bleeding, from an off placed life transfer, but with the changes to recharge alone, it can A be kept up indefinitely, STACKS with those conditions (to the maximum of 10) on the foe already suffering from them in the first place, AND now the monk, if any, has a nasty hex to remove from the already beaten to a pulp fool in question.

Life Transfer+Angorodons Gaze+Plague Sending//Touch would be pretty much a given. Even at lvl 4 curses, you're shipping off 2 conditions to A target foe and adjacent foes.

*Hums 'Tainted Love.'*

Moloch Vein · Apr 12, 2008, 01:17 AM // 01:17

I'm not sure if Anet is willing to open yet another window for Paragon abuse :-/

Other suggestions:

Spells to steal adrenaline.

Drakken Breathes Fire · Apr 12, 2008, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

I'm not sure if Anet is willing to open yet another window for Paragon abuse :-/

Other suggestions:

Spells to steal adrenaline.

What would the necromancer do with adrenaline stolen? Perhaps he just gets another orders skill that makes his party steal adrenaline? If anything this should be a feature added to Order of the Vampire, since if can't stack with another enchantment, atleast make it slightly worth the sacrifice.